wow i thought that this forum is a support group for phders--i was completely wrong to think that i would get any support (as those who cry about resubmissions) on a topic about age and 'voice' in society, but i guess not. i would never say that i am on the level of charles darwin-that is such an asinine claim that i am shocked to read it. i am simply making a comparison between what seems to be popular and what does not. i wish phders would be more popular because we do have important things to say in our own fields and i think that the general public would have much to learn. it is also not like phd students just pop out of no-where, we have taken the initiative to continue learning and many of us have come a long way and even first year students have something to say. it is interesting, to me, to see how much beaten down someone can get on this forum simply because they do not adopt the idea that phders are doomed to a life of silence and work behind the scenes in solving the battlers for cancer without getting much attention at all unless they make a break-through once-in-a-lifetime discovery. to me, this approach does not seem any different than the romantic idea of a 'starving-artist' --and of course if an artist is not starving then the starving-artist posse simply doubt the very reason why the artist is an 'artist' in the first place. i am simply advocating here for a more wide-spread respect for phd students in the public media eye, and i cannot believe how much negative feedback this post is receiving. honestly, i am really disappointed.

The show-biz thing is just an example just to show how little 'weight' Phders' voices and opinions seem to hold in mainstream society-that's all.

Rosy-I wrote this thread to see if others feel this way and how they have dealt with these feelings and not to be beaten down with short, smart comments.

I would like to make a correction, I am not saying that I would want to be a D lister on a random television show, but what upsets me is that those people get more attention in terms of 'supporting a cause' than a PhD student or a scholar (of course there are exceptions such as Richard Dawkins whom I love and of course there are 'academic' circles) and that PhD students overall are often times over-looked by the media as people who 'represent' and important element of our society and 'causes'--For example, I am looking at a New York Times section specifically dedicated towards holding a camera in front of an actor/actress and them simply talking about really nothing important in particular (favorite foods, favorite childhood memories)---of course there is an audience for that, but why would we scoff at a section through reputable media outlets on 'up-and-coming' researchers? Apart from the very hidden 'academic journal' and 'academic conference' culture, I just feel in general that PhD students are not 'celebrated' as much as other youth-sub cultures of society (a rock band or what not). Why aren't there "Vanity Fair" equivalent magazines detailing the lives of young up-and-coming researchers? This is saying something completely different from what you are saying about my incentives of being a PhD student-I highly revere research and PhD studies and course searching for a cure for cancer, etc. but I just do not think young researchers are respected and revered publically (see the threads on PhD students who have confronted people who do not think PhD is a 'real job') as much as the the next D-lister reality star or the actors whose 'voices' carry much more weight in politics and human rights than those who give their jobs. I do not mind celebrity news media, but I feel as if it has gotten to the point that celebrities have more 'access' to voice their less-than-developed opinions than those who do have something to say. Anyway, thanks for the post!

hello all-this may seem like a strange post, but it is a cumulation of several issues i have been confronting related to my age: i am a 23 year old (first year) phd student and i have two seemingly contradictory problems regarding age: (1) i have trouble making friends in my department almost all the graduate students are over the age of 30 and i feel that there is a comraderie between them and the professors which i cannot seem to establish, more importantly (2) since i began my phd studies, i have started to 'feel' old for the first time in my life and have confronted his stressful urgency to 'do something big' that will make me 'remembered'--it is stupid and egoistic, but i always felt i had that drive inside of me and that 'i was one of those people' who thinks outside of the box and people want to know and understand. for some reason, i have let myself go not only physically but also in terms of my ambitious visions of the person i would like to become. i almost feel as if intellectually, physically, and ambition-wise i have been leaving the track i have set out for myself only several years ago (in my 'prime' years). it particularly bothers me when i see the facebook guys and the google guys and the 16 year olds with with book deals, and the famous 19 year old movie stars and these public people whose activities are highly monitored (it particularly bothers me when drew barrymore or george clooney or angelina jolies are getting attention for their focus on 'human rights' as if their voices are more valuable then the hard working behind the scenes scholars who have put a lot of work into organizations, books, etc but hardly get as much attention even though what comes out of their mouths is much more intelligent than what a 21 movie star has to say). anyway-getting off track, but this is a depressing aspect of phd studies that i have encountered---its like i am putting in so much work into my future but no one cares or sees how hard i work while i see the public celebration of celebrities and 17-year old harvard undergraduates who are changing the world while i am sitting at a library writing about something that no one gives a crap about and watching my youth flee in front of my very eyes, feeling uninspired to 'change the world' and yet feeling the pressures of acting 'grown up' in front of a 30+ year old phd student body and of course, much older department staff. bottom line, however, it saddens me that phd students do not get enough media attention on their projects.

Hello, I read your post and a recent conversation with my supervisor popped into my head. Don't get me wrong, I understand how difficult it must be to face this, but my supervisor just recently returned from a viva and he stated that he and the other auditors are usually very surprised when students who have to do a resubmission are upset about the entire ordeal. He said that he understood why it can be frustrating since the viva is such an important event in a doctoral student's life but he did not comprehend how some students think that they are simply turning in a masterpiece. Pieces of scholarship are living bodies of work-they are written, then they are commented on by peers and superiors, and then they are rewritten until they are the best that they can be. When scholars and other types of researchers attend conferences, they are criticized by dozens of people and often times made complete fools in front of those whom they are sometimes competing with and others whom they want to please. Anyway, they write down the comments, make changes, and submit their work and life goes on. This is the concept of scholarship-writing, editing, rewriting, editing, etc. -you know that! You wouldn't be a doctoral student if you did not understand that. It is obviously difficult to face the truth of your situation, but just remember that every scholar has been there or will be there at some point in his/her life whether it is in front of a viva board or an entire audience of listeners at a conference. As for family issues, I completely understand given that my parents did not even know which university I attended for some time and still think my doctoral studies are simply 'topics I am interested in' instead of actual work that I am doing on a serious level. Families hardly ever understand :D

Oh yes, and another one of my supervisors who got his PhD at Harvard Uni. had to do a resubmission. He said he just sucked it up, did it, and now the PhD some 30 years later is like a flip book he sometimes goes to to try to understand what he was ever trying to say in his thesis, and yet he continues to be flummoxed to this day-has no clue what point he was trying to make. But he got over the thesis, and went on with his life. Whatever! Why not just take the day/night off, go out to eat a favorite meal of this, have a drink, sit down for a movie and just finish the bastard while holding your breath!

In other words-its no big deal!

my extended proposal was about 80 pages (no kidding) but only because it is intended mostly for you to 'go through the thinking process' of your plans a, b, c, etc. and where you will go if you get such and such results, etc. a research proposal should be as long as you think it will need to be for you to understand your project.

I get the same exact treatment as a Phd student who is currently on a full scholarship. My partner (whose family constantly pressures him to work outside of school even though they are 100x more well off than I am) would constantly ask me when I plan on getting a 'job' and tells people I never held a 'real' job. Yet, I see my full scholarship AS payment for my work. His parents don't really see that and probably think that I am lazy and do not want to get my 'hands dirty' like a 'regular' person.

Ever get the feeling that an idea you once expressed to someone become recycled and then that person got the credit for the idea you pitched? That has been bugging me for some time as I am a first year student and I have been warned by other PhD students as a rule of thumb to not give out too much information about your theoretical ideas or your methods given that others might 'subconsciously' scoop it up and incorporate it into their own research. But then you want to also talk to others about your ideas and see what the counter arguments might be. Are most of you selfish with expressing your thought-out 'ideas' or do you think that when it all comes down to it, the student who argues the idea the best deserves the credit.